But who has created this so called backward poor regions? How the people are left alone to suffer by the so called US? Is it not our shame that we let people rot and then cry foul when someone else comes forward to wipe their tears? The next logical street ahead is the options of conversions?

The choice is there for all .. Let us all come together to eradicate the evils ,and see where will that leave the missionaries?

Do we have it in us?

I have seen people who did nto choose to convert even in marriages to non-hindus and continue to lead a meaningful life. I have also seen Hindus who are doing their job of being an example of the religion, not seeking any publicity at all. Entharo Mahanubhavulu andhriki Vandanamulu..It is the common people who are keeping the Dharma alive!

God bless

First of all, no matter what society we are living in , secular or non-secular, there are a certain rules of the states, which for most reasons can be believed to be just. I do believe that people are on the whole very just, and lets face it, “humane”. If there is anything wrong with the laws of the country it must be debated and rectified. So there is no question of anyone being above the law. Killing anyone, at least in India, is illegal. If someone has done a mistake, he must be taken to court. If you dont believe in courts of this coutry, then that is the down fall of democracy. Of course the country has a lot of flaws, there are a lot of things that are not right, it is upto us to rectify that. NO MATTER WHAT THE ISSUE IS, NO MATTER WHAT SITUATION IT IS, NO ONE SHOULD TRY TO KILL ANYONE. THIS IS BASIC RULE OF A HUMAN STATE. THERE IS NO POINT BEING A RELIGIOUS STATE, IF YOU ARENT HUMANE. The guy who told Dara Singh to kill, must be hanged in public if you ask me, of course with the courts approval. A sane person would have filed a public interest litigation against the missionary.

There is no denying the fact that missiosnaries do shady stuff to convert people, and most often these stuff goes unnoticed. I would prefer not to go down to the same level of these missionaries, keep my head high and follow my religion the way I want it. I am proud to be a Hindu, that very pride help me understand how other people feel about their religion and makes me tolerant to their religion. Any person who is intolerant to others religion is not truly proud of his. He is jealous that other religions have better ideals.

I do believe that as a country at people level, we are secular. Have you ever seen your parents or your grandparents telling a Muslim not to enter their house or not being polite to them because of their religion. On the contrary, there has always existed a nice community sentiment among all religions. In my road there were hindus, muslims and christians, all living happily and wishing each other on their festivals. This is true and I can prove it. That is the very essence of secualrism. It is politicians who are unneccesarily sparking off religious tensins in the society for their gain. There is a wonderful story by R.K.Laxman about how the society which on its own was tolerant split up during religious riots and ended up killing one of its own. Very touching and very well written, ill try to get its name.

All in all, I was happy that the Hindu extremists havent gained much popularity in India ( people like VHP ). I always felt Hinduism is a tolerant religion and honestly believe all religions are. If we start to think that we have to kill to save our religion, we are just creating another Iraq or Afghanisthan.

People who are still not convinced, see the movie, American History X……..

what i mean when i say think globally is that we souldn’t develope at a cost on someone else. We are not in 18th cetuary when consequences of out actions were limited to out borders. Today, esp in environment, any action we take has a global impact. Similarly, even other countries should realise that and start taking corrective measures to repair the damage. What we do to our environment affects europe directly and probably what africa does, affect us. Thinking globally is a necessity and not being naive. That dosn’t mean we have to sacrifise our growth for someone else. India is a part of world too. A stagnant india translates to a stagnant world in some sense.

I agree with you on local language …. we have to encourage it so that the culture doesn’t die (not that its dying now). There are means and ways to do it. A good administrator will implement them.

Bindi or no bindi must be a personal choice. Govt. should step in and warn the convent schools. Any religious establishment today is not at all selfless, as far as i know.

Yes, I do proud that i belong to India and Karnataka. I just speak out against what is bad in our system. Somehow, that is seen as not taking pride in oneself.

@ rest of junta
Remember, Bangalore is fastest developing city is asia because we were open to all the people and best brains came to Bangalore. I dont beleive it has killed our culture. If anyone thinks of bangalore as Brigade road and MG road, you are wrong. The foundation of kannadiga culture is still alive. It has gone a lil Hi tech changing times you see.

i did not change my stance, all i claimed was that that the “official” purpose of missionaries have nothing wrong in them, their implementation, as i think, is ugly (buy not worthy enough to get them killed anyway). Any religion needs faith. By giving money, they are not going get any faith. That’s something they have to understand. I remember having said that there is nothing wrong in coaxing, i still stick by it. Giving money and food is charity, no doubt. But it doesn’t bring the quality to a religion.

What do you mean when there was no option??? killing shouldn’t even be a option in a civilised society which i presume you represent.

Well, when you said you dont approve of what missionaries do, I asked you, “what about ISKCON?” You said, “thats a different case altogether.” Don’t blame me for interpreting it as “yes, i do approve of it” I sent you the post (before it was published) hoping that you would correct these kind of mistakes i may have made. you dont and you finally accuse me quoting you wrongly.
iskon doesn’t use the word hinduism. it only says, “pray to krishna”… isn’t that same as organised conversion. Your point about isckon not going to poor but has been associated rich doesn’t mean that they do not pounce on your weakness. Everyone (every religious organisation) does. You cant say “ok” to isckon and condemn what missionaries do. There in lies the hypocrasy.

You called me narrow minded because i woudn’t accept violence as a route to happiness. You told me that I was ready to beleive that non-violence was the only way to happiness… Its gonna be fun. Explain how will violence bring happiness to people. IF you dont i will remain “narrow minded” for the rest of my life. i guess as a broad minded person, you wouldn’t want that.

You go personal in your post without me having provoked you and called me narrow minded despite the fact that there were lot of unanswered question on your side … after having sent you post to be read before being published, you had two days to reply… you dont, instead you go personal. I’m sorry, that’s not a way to win an arguement.

You ask for hindu state, i ask for a secular state and you call me narrow minded. You don’t want Valentine’s day in Indian primarily because its not Indian, and you call me narrow minded. You dont want want the age old rule of not allowing women to Shabrimala temple to change because it symbolises bachelarism, you are not ready to change a rule because of tredition even when things have changed so much over the years…and you call me narrow minded. You tell me that I shouldn’t be thinking globally first and you call me narrow minded. I am not willing to accept non-violence as an answer, that why you call me norrow minded. Wonderderful!!!!! Where does it leave Gandhi then????????

Whether u agree or not I think we have to take a little more pride in what we are(I mean our country/language etc).

S.Manohar

This is what I “explained” or you heard??? There is obviously a lot more to it. That is not even an arguement… How wrongly and biasedly can you dub….
And look at this…

I agree that the extent to which missionaries go in order to acheive conversion is ugly to say the least.

Now you changed your mind eh??? What a change in tone, truly pulled of a chameleon.

I am sorry to not have pointed it out before but the changing shades of your arguement are far too much to keep quiet any longer.

I do not think Graham Staines HAD to die. The community did not have any option but to kill him or to take up voilence against him, is my only contention. And in the situation that the law failed them they took the extreme step. They did it to defend the integrity of their community. Killing his two kids(family), like I said is wrong, probably an accident. Of course I would like to add that it is justifiable or necessary only if the above facts (highly disputable) are true.

Your contention that I am hypocritical because I support what ISCKON does and all, right? Well I do not support ISKON anyway, but I think their case is totally different though, they do not target the weak and the poor among the society. They work in US and all, and make people Krishna concious, in a free society of US where no crap is tolerated…… I may not see eye to eye with many ISKON people, but does not mean I say what they do is wrong. I do not think what they do is wrong. I feel what the missionaries do is wrong, not because they spread christianity, I feel they adopt the worst of methods to do so. In any case, what else do you have to suggest that my arguement is hypocritical??? huh??

And Gandhe, the part about not welcoming outsiders, well I do not think outsiders should be discouraged or not allowed or not welcomed. I myself am an “outsider” in or in Bangalore. The arguement is far more complex than this to explain, shall do so in person.

I really dot know how provacative missonaries can be, but i do know it cannot be as provocative as killing a man and his two children. The tribals could have firmly said “no” and the matter would have ended. What could he do then??? He would have left India.

Afghanistan was rooted out by Russia … and then by America…. Clearly, when your own home has been destroyed, extremists have every reason to get violent. Osama’s home, Afganistan, was destroyed by Russia, America went to was againsnt Iraq for oil…when the world is hostile to muslims (for whatever reason), by your arguement, Osama’s actions are quite justified. He is doing it under the name of islam is another matter. Probably to convince himself that god will be please by him (as it is a “jihad”).

You cant kill two children and call it self-defence.

Your idea of a world without any killing is too utopian to be true…
that doesn’t mean we dont have to try and get closer and closer to it.

What justifies killing? I think many things do, punishment for wrongdoing, defensive killing, etc. are situations where killing is required.
capital punishment etc are all well debated topics… i am against it, there are a lot who are in favour of it…. no point about this arguement..it can go on for ages

@deepak
Yes, India is not truly secular. We don’t have uniform civil code. Law treats religions differently. BJP has no rights to force people to sing Vande Maataram. Singing vande maartam must be made optional to all, not just muslims. We need major reforms here. Congress is as much to blame as BJP.

Hinduism need people with faith (quality), not quantity. A person with enough faith won’t convert. I agree that the extent to which missionaries go in order to acheive conversion is ugly to say the least. But, not good enough reason to kill them.

Modi had everything in him to stop the riots, he did not. Muslims got killed. With majority hindu population blinded by religion, they voted him back. They campared him to Sardar Vallabhai Patel (Sick). He might be the best cm for hindus, not for an Indian State (even if the state has 100% hindus). Has he at least apologised for the indifference( i dont know)???

No comments about what Hadiths say. If indeed that what it says, the “guidelines” have to be changed. Things have to change with times. That goes with Hinduism and Christianity too. A lot of muslims claim that jihad is mis-interpreted by terrorists. Untill I hear from a learnt person that violence is suggested in their holy book, I am not convinced.